Preston (00:02.979)
Hi there and welcome again to a different episode of Freelance to Founder. This can be a particular Q&A episode the place we take questions from listeners identical to you and do our greatest to reply them as rapidly as we are able to for you, hopefully get you again on the highway along with your freelance enterprise. I’m Preston Lee from Millo.co and becoming a member of me on the air as all the time is my good friend Clay Mosley from GetDripify.com. Hey Clay.
Clay (00:24.694)
How’s it going, man? This can be a particular episode as a result of we’re most likely going to rant a bit, proper?
Preston (00:29.663)
We’re going to rant a bit. Sure, sir. We’re going to speak about, nicely, I gained’t, I gained’t spoil it proper up. Let’s catch up just a little bit first. How are issues stepping into your world?
Clay (00:39.794)
Uh, it’s good, man. You understand, my Georgia, my toddler’s working quicker than I’m, so I’m having to cope with that.
Preston (00:46.471)
Yeah, been there. And so they don’t cease. They don’t decelerate. Not less than not but. Yeah, mine haven’t slowed down but. So, nicely, let’s discuss, I can’t make small speak anymore. We obtained to simply dive in as a result of we have been speaking about this earlier than we document. And I’ve been wanting ahead to this for just a few days. And that is actually, we usually reply questions from…
Clay (00:49.692)
I don’t cease. Nope.
Clay (01:00.654)
Ha ha
Clay (01:03.802)
Okay, let’s go.
Preston (01:14.771)
listeners, proper? If you wish to ask us a query, you may write in at freelance2founder.com ask. There’s a fast type there. You simply sort your reply in. You’ve heard us reply questions from listeners. At present, Clay, I’ve a query for you truly, and that’s I’ve seen across the freelance group, the company group, these communities I hand around in, I’ve seen, it looks like everybody speaking about this product referred to as…
excessive stage. It’s like gohighlevel.com or one thing like that. It looks like everybody’s speaking about it. The search, you understand, I do plenty of web optimization analysis for our personal weblog. The search visitors is big. It’s identical to skyrocketing. Everybody’s speaking about it. Everybody’s questioning about it, proper? So, so the opposite day I truly began a weblog submit on the, we have been going to publish on Millo and I signed up for…
Clay (01:45.496)
Mm-hmm.
Preston (02:06.467)
excessive stage in order that I might get a really feel for what it’s, what it seems like, possibly give my advice. Like must you use this when you’re constructing an company? I used to be like that is good for freelance to founder as a result of everybody listening is on this mode of like what instruments do I take advantage of to develop my enterprise and the way do I scale my enterprise, and so forth. So I’m considering like that is going to be nice. I’m going to enroll. I’m going to try it. I’m midway via that article and I take a break and I get on Fb and I see Clay
Clay (02:24.641)
Yeah.
Preston (02:34.415)
form of this mini rant about excessive stage, about you tried it and also you didn’t adore it.
Clay (02:41.094)
No, I didn’t adore it. That may be a very a lot understated. And after I say I attempted it, it’s not like I attempted a free trial and hated it. I went all in on it.
Preston (02:42.727)
In actual fact, I imply, that’s an understatement, proper?
Preston (02:54.987)
Yeah, okay, so inform me, yeah, let’s undergo this course of. So I wanna hear earlier than you signed up what you had heard about it, after which let’s discuss your course of, signing up, getting began, migrating over, since you did go all in, it seems like. I used to be type of simply utilizing it as a approach to get a really feel for it. I didn’t transfer my entire enterprise onto it. After which now have you ever moved away from it?
Clay (03:18.486)
Oh, I’ve fully moved away, yeah. So I first heard of it, when was it, three years in the past? Excessive stage’s not that outdated. I don’t know precisely when it got here out. Perhaps we are able to do a fast Google search. However I feel it’s solely like a handful of years. You understand?
Preston (03:19.808)
Yeah.
Preston (03:29.075)
No it’s not.
Preston (03:39.987)
Yeah, I imply, I’ve been on this area a very long time, proper? And I hadn’t heard of it. I’m doing a fast Google search. It seems like, 2018, April 2018. So we’re recording October, 2023. So 5 years or so. However you understand, the primary couple of years of a SaaS, it’s like nobody hears of you in any respect. However yeah.
Clay (03:45.843)
Yeah.
Clay (03:55.723)
Yeah, yeah.
Clay (03:59.378)
Proper. Yeah, so I first got here throughout it, man, in the event that they got here out in 2018, I got here throughout it after they have been tremendous, tremendous younger. I feel I got here throughout it finish of 2019, starting of 2020. And I got here throughout it as a result of certainly one of my shoppers was utilizing it from, as a result of they have been working with one other company who was utilizing it. And so they made my shopper get on it. And…
Preston (04:27.009)
Hmm, okay.
Clay (04:29.534)
I noticed it. I didn’t prefer it then. And what I didn’t like was the interface. I hated the interface. It’s yeah, it’s fairly fundamental, which there’s a distinction between fundamental and like easy. I assumed it was ugly. I assumed it was ugly, man. Now take into account, like everybody has their desire, proper? Individuals who I do know individuals who use excessive love who adore it, who adore it all collectively.
Preston (04:34.095)
Ha ha.
Preston (04:38.351)
fairly fundamental.
Preston (04:45.593)
100% yeah.
Clay (05:00.13)
And so they additionally love the interface. So, however I’m simply speaking about for me, I simply didn’t prefer it. In order that’s after I first got here throughout it, I didn’t use it. I truly advised my shopper to get on one thing else, proper? As a result of I refused to make use of excessive stage at that time. After which…
Preston (05:04.906)
Mm-hmm.
Preston (05:19.403)
And I really feel like possibly at this level, what we should always have achieved possibly just a little bit higher is simply inform folks rapidly what it’s. So excessive stage is from what I’ve seen, mainly like they actually give attention to the CRM side of it, however it’s type of like a enterprise administration productiveness venture administration device, proper? Yeah, they’re form of making an attempt to be, I imply, there’s instruments on the market which are form of like this. You concentrate on just like the HubSpots, Moxie,
Clay (05:21.728)
Yeah.
Oh yeah.
Clay (05:36.482)
They’re making an attempt to be every little thing.
Preston (05:47.259)
Even instruments that started off as simply invoicing instruments like FreshBooks or one thing like that, they’ve develop into these venture administration, you concentrate on like monday.com or ClickUp is form of stepping into that area just a little bit extra, however they began extra on the venture administration facet. Mainly, they wish to be this one place that you just go to deal with all of the items of your small business, from advertising to administration, CRM, clients, shoppers, all of that stuff multi function place.
Clay (06:03.438)
Mm-hmm.
Clay (06:14.518)
Yeah, yeah, it’s a, I don’t know what folks name it. I name it like only a full automation software program, proper? Advertising and marketing automation software program, however, and there’s a number of, there’s a number of opponents on the market that do very related issues, however yeah, that’s after I first got here throughout it, after which I assumed nothing of it for a pair years after that. After which I really feel prefer it like blew up in, I assume from their perspective in a great way.
Preston (06:22.335)
Yeah, okay, yeah.
Preston (06:29.623)
for.
Clay (06:43.582)
the place I simply noticed, I simply began seeing it in all places. Like over the past yr. And that is the place I made my mistake. I used to be with Keap on the time, previously Infusionsoft, however now Keap. My mistake was, Keap was working for me.
Preston (06:57.815)
Okay. Yep.
Clay (07:07.87)
and I fell for the shiny object syndrome. However okay, so right here’s what I imply although, like after I mentioned I went all in, I didn’t simply go like and buy the software program. I bought the company stage, which is thrice greater than the conventional account if I have been to simply get it for myself. However along with that, I migrated all my stuff over to it.
Preston (07:11.821)
Yeah, yeah
Preston (07:24.612)
Hmm
Preston (07:30.611)
Yeah.
Preston (07:36.547)
So if you promote your stuff, what needed to be migrated? You’re speaking shopper contact data.
Clay (07:37.191)
and uh… oh
every little thing. So I imply like I’ve over 20,000 emails on my checklist however not simply that every one of my shopper notes from teaching shoppers I had I needed to manually scrape these and put them into excessive stage not simply that I needed to create I needed to go and absolutely combine with my billing system so I take advantage of Stripe for that. I needed to go and create all of the merchandise inside a excessive stage I needed to go and create
Preston (07:43.819)
What else? Yeah.
Preston (07:54.301)
Oh wow.
Whoa.
Preston (08:10.251)
Oh wow.
Clay (08:11.934)
all of the workflow automations that I had from maintain to excessive stage. I needed to go and create all of the funnels and touchdown and opt-in pages in excessive stage.
Preston (08:22.136)
How lengthy did this take you?
Clay (08:25.218)
Uh, it most likely took me a whole week working full days to do it.
Preston (08:28.787)
Yeah. Yeah, it’s plenty of work.
Clay (08:32.906)
Yeah, most likely an excellent 30, 40 hours to love migrate it. However right here’s the factor. So a further step to this, all of that, simply migration was simply by itself a beast. I made a decision as a result of you understand this, such as you’re a salesman, I’m a salesman, I noticed alternative on this. So with excessive stage, you’ve gotten the flexibility to have sub accounts.
Preston (08:58.852)
Hmm.
Clay (09:00.746)
So which means like you may create an account below your account. So if like as an company stage account, you may think about it as like a grasp account. After which you’ve gotten all these like sub accounts beneath the grasp. And you’ll create limitless of these on an company stage. And so I assumed in my head, I’m going to offer, I’m going to resell.
this proper that is that is how excessive stage yep that is how excessive stage arrange you may resell excessive stage you are able to do it a pair other ways you may resell it like form of a sass white label it proper that’s what i did um i imply i advised folks it was excessive stage however it had my brand on it um so i charged for that
Preston (09:31.371)
Received it. Wish to your shoppers.
Preston (09:47.055)
Okay, fascinating. So that is why although in your Fb submit you have been like, that is actually simply an MLM. And for folks not acquainted, a multi-level advertising firm is like mainly you solely earn money when you refer a bunch of individuals and I imply you’ve heard of those, like they’re the gosh, what’s the clothes one which’s been so in style these days like
Clay (09:54.466)
Mm-hmm.
Clay (10:15.512)
All of the, no, it’s not Lula, it’s Lula Gown, which went below, which went below. The documentaries are very fascinating.
Preston (10:17.919)
LuLaRoe, LuLaRoe. Yeah, they did. They did exit of enterprise. I had a good friend who labored there and, however, oh, I haven’t seen them, however yeah, however there’s all these MLM corporations the place it’s like, they signal below you, you get a part of the income they pay and also you construct up your community and it’s a complete factor. It’s a pyramid, yeah.
Clay (10:28.77)
Yeah.
Clay (10:35.762)
Yeah, it’s just a little pyramid. Now they do have an possibility the place you will be an affiliate, which for my part is totally different, as a result of if somebody indicators up as an affiliate, sure, you get a fee of what they pay, however it’s their very own account. They’re not beneath you. You simply get credit, like only a referral payment, proper? You do have that possibility.
Preston (10:44.498)
Yeah, 100%.
Preston (10:53.173)
Yeah.
Clay (10:59.158)
however I went the choice of sub account as a result of I assumed, oh, cash, proper? Like I’m going to get more cash if I can resell this. So like I used to be promoting, like you may promote like, when you have been to simply go to gohighlevel.com, somebody might simply pay $97 a month for an account. Base value, we are able to get into that later. So I assumed, hmm, I’m going to promote this for 79 a month when you do it below me. In order that’s what I did. Along with that,
Preston (11:02.326)
Yeah.
Preston (11:15.69)
Okay.
Clay (11:29.41)
There’s a extremely, actually excessive studying curve to excessive stage. I mentioned, I’m additionally going to cost a further $99 for prime stage teaching. In order that was a separate product. So I used to be making some cash.
Preston (11:39.352)
Hmm
Preston (11:45.407)
Yeah, like did you’ve gotten, you bought so far as to have shoppers go for this and it was a, it was a factor you have been, yeah.
Clay (11:49.13)
Sure. I didn’t get that far. I used to be making a pair thousand a month. Which is an efficient chunk of change. Don’t get me incorrect.
Preston (11:54.581)
Okay, okay.
Preston (11:58.386)
Yeah, completely. What number of shoppers did you’ve gotten on this system that you just have been constructing?
Clay (12:03.971)
Uhhh… I had 15 or so? Yeah. 15 or so. I solely did this for like a month.
Preston (12:06.797)
Yeah.
Preston (12:12.639)
Yeah, no, I’m simply, I’m type of like, I’m type of like foreshadowing, proper? I’m making an attempt to construct up every little thing that you just did when listeners know already from the highest of the present that all of it got here crumbling down.
Clay (12:19.734)
Yeah.
Clay (12:23.018)
Oh yeah, so I forgot to, I skipped out. So it took me about 40 hours emigrate, however it additionally took me a further, most likely 50 to 60 hours to grasp it. As a result of I wished to promote the excessive stage teaching, so I needed to grasp it. So I put in altogether triple digits in hours. So I simply, yeah, simply giving context
Preston (12:35.775)
I’m positive. Yeah.
Preston (12:46.67)
Yeah.
Clay (12:53.346)
time, cash, effort, and likewise alternative. Like I used to be making a pair thousand {dollars} simply after a month of launching. That’s loads to love give as much as simply reverse again. Proper?
Preston (13:10.935)
Yeah, so let’s get into that just a little bit extra. So your expertise, was it okay at first? I imply, it should’ve been ok at first since you began signing on shoppers, you weren’t instantly disgusted by it, proper? Or did you see early warning indicators and also you form of possibly ignored them? Yeah.
Clay (13:23.573)
Ah, yeah.
That one. I noticed there, nicely, okay, so I didn’t ignore them. I noticed some early indicators in the truth that they, just like the software program’s tremendous buggy. It’s, yeah, it’s buggy, man. It’s like, however it wasn’t sufficient for me to be like, okay, I’m switching, proper? It was identical to little tiny quirks.
Preston (13:40.291)
Hmm, I used to be noticing that. Even simply, I simply did a fast onboarding.
Clay (13:56.798)
You understand, it didn’t actually mess issues up completely.
Preston (13:58.549)
Yeah.
Properly, and the place you knew they have been pretty younger, you understand, now we have just a little extra persistence with youthful tech corporations. It’s like, ah, determine it out.
Clay (14:05.756)
Yeah.
Yeah, it was extra on that stage, proper? However along with that, like stacking on high, I assumed the software program is ugly, proper? For me personally, I do know lots of people are like this. I take advantage of software program extra usually whether it is fairly.
Preston (14:11.052)
Yeah.
Preston (14:17.399)
hehe
Clay (14:29.266)
I’m not even joking. Like, if it’s prettier, I’ll use it extra usually. You understand what I imply? Like if it’s ugly, I’m not going to make use of it. I imply, that is with the belief it’s practical. So on high of that, so buggy, it was, it was, it’s ugly for my part. Additionally they’ve issues, and context, that is what I do day by day. I’ve handled all sorts of software program. I imply like ActiveCampaign, Hold.
Preston (14:35.566)
Completely, completely.
Clay (15:00.054)
ConvertKit, MailChimp, I imply you title it, I’ve labored with it. Both on a private stage or from a shopper stage. So on condition that context, excessive stage has some sure options in sure locations. I’m like why did they put that there? It makes zero sense why they might put this proper right here. You understand what I imply? Prefer it’s simply… However once more, yeah.
Preston (15:04.886)
Hmm.
Preston (15:24.819)
Yeah, it seems like they only had plenty of UX points. Their UX design was off, their basic UX, like the place they determined to put issues and arrange issues was off.
Clay (15:35.85)
Mm-hmm. Yeah, it’s however once more at this level, you understand, it’s It nonetheless wasn’t sufficient for me to be like, you understand, like I neglect it. I’m simply gonna swap away It was you understand, it’s simply quirky, you understand, sure, they’re younger firm. I can I can I’ve just a little bit extra persistence for it So as to add to the quirkiness I identical to one other annoyance however once more not sufficient for me to
migrate again was they included some issues. I really feel like excessive ranges making an attempt to be every little thing, however they’re making an attempt to power it. So for instance, you may re when you if you’re I don’t understand how this I don’t understand how it’s on a person account stage. I had an company stage, which by the way in which context excessive ranges designed for businesses.
Preston (16:30.223)
That’s good to know too as now we have listeners who’re nonetheless within the freelance stage and are possibly contemplating all of them after our dialog. You most likely gained’t be contemplating excessive stage anymore, however that’s good to know. Why do you say that? What makes it designed for businesses extra so than for solo companies?
Clay (16:45.302)
Oh, for one, they are saying this. I truly talked to one of many founders at a convention. That is earlier than the entire, my entire factor went down. And he mentioned, we constructed this particularly just for businesses, not the top consumer. And after I say finish consumer, not the small enterprise proprietor. So the problem is, I feel one of many issues that prime ranges have in…
Preston (16:49.679)
Received it, okay.
Preston (16:57.075)
All proper. Yep.
Preston (17:08.823)
Yeah.
Clay (17:13.622)
quote unquote hassle with is that they’re not staying within the lane that it’s designed to be in. They’re gladly accepting cash from small enterprise house owners realizing that they designed the software program for businesses.
Preston (17:18.583)
Hmm
Preston (17:27.119)
Attention-grabbing. They’re making an attempt to, yeah, they’re making an attempt to type of retrofit it into an viewers that’s keen to pay, which there’s nothing incorrect with that when you then regulate the product to suit the brand new viewers, proper? But it surely seems like possibly that’s not working very nicely.
Clay (17:28.511)
Yeah.
Clay (17:41.831)
Yeah, the issue is that businesses, they know how you can work with software program, proper? This kind of software program. If some chiropractor or somebody like a small enterprise proprietor or medical skilled and even somebody who doesn’t cope with this software program who’s in our business, possibly like an internet designer, or you understand what I imply?
Preston (18:04.647)
Yeah. Uh-huh.
Clay (18:08.326)
who hasn’t been on the company stage, which is plenty of our viewers right here, the training curve is tremendous excessive. It was even tremendous excessive for me. I imply, it took me 50, 60 hours to grasp this factor. Whereas I can hop into ActiveCampaign or KEEP or no matter and like I do know the software program fairly nicely after like 5 to 10 hours, you understand. However in any case, again to my level on they’re making an attempt to power
Preston (18:30.957)
Yeah.
Clay (18:37.462)
being every little thing. On the company stage, you may, you may, there’s a characteristic in there the place you may resell WordPress internet hosting.
Preston (18:38.423)
Hmm.
Preston (18:46.285)
That appears very area of interest, proper?
Clay (18:49.042)
Yeah, and you may resell Yext. Y-E-X-T. I feel it’s like a… No, it’s… I don’t wish to quote incorrect. I feel it’s like a… A list, you understand, you may get your checklist, your listing listings and sure, you may get all these like as much as par. You understand, it’s form of like Moz.
Preston (18:53.359)
I don’t even know what that’s. Like an SMS service.
Preston (19:08.323)
Just like the telephone book? Okay.
Preston (19:17.948)
Ah yeah yeah, okay. I see what you’re saying, yep.
Clay (19:19.858)
Yeah, however you may, there’s a characteristic contained in the software program that claims, hey, you wish to be a Yext reseller?
Preston (19:27.075)
as a result of they most likely have accounts there they usually’re mainly doing what, it seems like they only actually love this MLM mannequin. They’re not solely contributors in different MLM fashions or affiliate fashions, however they’re additionally, yeah, it feels form of all over. And I didn’t get into it deep sufficient to expertise all these tiny little issues, however what actually obtained me about it was simply, once more, I’m gonna use that phrase easy, and never in a great way, as a result of there’s easy software program that’s tremendous highly effective.
Clay (19:41.739)
Yeah.
Preston (19:55.679)
and it’s like, wow, that is gonna take a lot off my plate. After which there’s easy software program the place it’s like, wow, that is gonna take me without end to study and I’m nonetheless unsure it’s gonna do what I really want it to do and there’s gonna be all these options that I’m gonna have to take a look at however I most likely don’t want and that’s extra how I felt after I was taking a look at HiLabs.
Clay (19:59.287)
Uh-huh.
Clay (20:14.41)
Yeah, I can see that. I imply, it’s humorous as a result of I feel aesthetically, it seems tremendous fundamental. However fairly actually, the performance and the training curve and all of the options it has is tremendous advanced.
Preston (20:27.375)
That’s so fascinating, proper? That it could be so reversed that means.
Clay (20:29.442)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, and I feel the rationale it seems, the rationale why I feel so is as a result of plenty of it’s the UX. Like for instance, if you go and construct, like they’ve a funnel builder.
Preston (20:37.043)
Yeah.
Preston (20:43.093)
Mm, okay.
Clay (20:45.074)
Properly, they’ve three totally different settings, like settings areas if you’re making a funnel, a minimum of on the time that we’re recording this. There’s the general funnel settings, the settings for every web page within the funnel, after which you’ve gotten the product settings. Properly, it could make plenty of sense.
for my part, from a UX perspective, that every one of those are, a minimum of the buttons the place you’d discover these settings, can be all in the identical location on the webpage, proper?
Clay (21:28.434)
They’ve the placement for the hyperlinks to all three of those settings throughout all the way in which throughout the webpage from one another. One’s all the way in which over to the suitable, one’s all the way in which over to the left, one’s in the direction of the underside.
Preston (21:36.14)
Bizarre.
Clay (21:44.266)
And it took me without end to determine that out.
Preston (21:46.127)
So it seems like there’s all these little issues which are beginning to add up. Just like the UX is simply okay for you, you don’t just like the look of it, it’s disorganized, it’s, there’s like bizarre issues that really feel like they shouldn’t essentially be included, it simply feels very disjointed. So all of this begins including up, and at what level does it form of swap for you the place you’re like, oh man, I’ve signed on 15 shoppers, I’ve migrated all these items over, like.
Clay (21:54.934)
Mm-hmm.
Clay (22:08.849)
Oh.
Preston (22:14.undefined)
What was the tipping level the place it was dangerous sufficient that it was like, nope, I’m achieved?
Clay (22:20.926)
Okay, so I constructed out my automations precisely how I had, there was two issues truly, two issues. I constructed out all of my automation workflows precisely like I had them in Hold, and I quadruple checked every little thing, proper? I even examined it a number of instances.
Preston (22:23.404)
Mm-hmm.
Preston (22:44.813)
And if you say workflows, is that this like, as soon as a, yeah, stroll me via like what a workflow would appear to be.
Clay (22:50.954)
Yeah, so like right here a extremely easy one is when somebody downloads a lead magnet, what occurs after that? So in an automatic means, they get an e-mail drip sequence, proper? They’re tagged in a sure means. Yeah. And, and I’ll offer you just a little bit extra context as a result of that is the place the error occurred. There’s a choice diamond. So I’ve like 5 lead magnets on my web site. I’ve a workflow automation.
Preston (22:57.305)
Received it.
Preston (23:01.775)
They’re tagged in a sure means in your CRM. Yeah, okay.
Preston (23:16.9)
Mm-hmm.
Clay (23:20.822)
that checks to see what tag was utilized, in order that means the consumer is aware of, or sorry, the software program is aware of which lead magnet was downloaded, so it takes them down that path. So it tells them, consumer A downloaded lead magnet A, so subsequently they’re gonna get the e-mail drip A, proper? Or in the event that they downloaded B,
Preston (23:32.065)
Proper.
Clay (23:50.918)
e-mail drip B. So it checks for whichever tag was utilized. That’s a really, like within the automation world, that’s a quite simple automation. Yeah. Yeah, it’s tremendous frequent. And I, you understand, with this being a brand new software program, I simply newly migrated, I’m consistently checking my automations to make it possible for.
Preston (23:51.63)
Proper, yeah.
Preston (23:58.967)
Very fundamental, yeah, and quite common.
Clay (24:18.018)
Did the emails get despatched to the suitable individual on the proper time, you understand, down the suitable path? I rapidly realized there was one morning the place 171 folks obtained despatched an e-mail, all at 7 a.m. precisely, who shouldn’t have gotten that e-mail. 171 folks.
Preston (24:44.687)
And what had occurred? They blended up which workflow they have been presupposed to be in?
Clay (24:50.182)
Sure, in order that’s what occurred technically. So I assumed, hmm, possibly I tousled, proper? So I went in, I checked, and I used to be like, I don’t suppose I did.
Preston (24:57.837)
Yeah.
Clay (25:05.846)
However let me delete this module and remake it, proper? So I assumed, okay, absolutely this fastened the issue. I checked again, I made the error of not checking till like three days later. Seems one other 171 folks at 7 a.m. for the subsequent three days, totally different, a unique set of 171 folks day by day.
obtained despatched the identical precise e-mail who weren’t presupposed to be getting despatched. And I used to be like, no f-ing means. And so I double checked, I triple checked, I obtained on help, proper? So Excessive Stage has like a help line the place they’ve like individuals who you may get on Zoom with, which that is the factor I can say constructive about Excessive Stage, is which you could get on a Zoom at any time 24-7. There is perhaps some wait, however you may go and workshop one thing, proper?
Preston (25:42.707)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Preston (25:50.781)
Uh-huh.
Preston (26:05.571)
This truly is a extremely fascinating level as a result of I, in order I used to be preparing for this episode, I used to be wanting up, you understand, on TrustPilot, excessive stage has a web page clearly, they usually have, let’s see, I’m gonna look actual fast, 1100, over 1100 evaluations, they usually’ve obtained 4.9 stars. And so I’m like sitting down able to have this dialog with you the place you’re actually disenchanted in it, proper? And but nearly all of folks tremendous adore it. And so I’m studying via a few of the evaluations simply on the primary web page.
Clay (26:27.476)
Mm-hmm.
Preston (26:34.847)
And what’s actually, actually fascinating is everyone seems to be raving concerning the help. So like most likely what occurs is after you’ve gotten a help expertise with them, they most likely ask for a assessment after which it pushes to Trustpilot. So like, sure, their help is admittedly good, however for my part, you understand, an organization that doesn’t must have you ever speak to help is known as a higher firm than one which it’s important to get with help after which the customer support is sweet. So.
Clay (26:58.143)
Yep.
Preston (27:02.839)
But it surely’s tremendous fascinating, like when you look on their entrance web page of TrustPilot, it’s like yeah, one, two, three, 4, I imply I’m unsure I discovered one on the entrance web page right here that wasn’t about buyer help.
Clay (27:17.518)
Mm-hmm. Yeah, I’ve a principle about that on why they’ve so many constructive evaluations I’m gonna say all this possibly I’m an anomaly. All proper, I don’t know. I Simply know I stay on this world. I Tried apply each advertising automation software program on the market that exists on some stage and You understand, I went all it I imply I went all in on it in order that’s my solely
Preston (27:31.863)
Yeah
Preston (27:44.681)
Yeah.
Clay (27:47.01)
background to this so I might be an anomaly I’m identical to in any case to proceed my story I obtained on help which was actually good it’s a form of truly form of hit or miss with the help as a result of generally you get individuals who truly know what they’re speaking about some people who find themselves simply taking a look at a flowchart choice factor or identical to what did he say okay let me test the flowchart and search for a solution however I went in and the primary individual mentioned nicely you understand this seems proper like
Preston (27:55.31)
Yeah.
Preston (28:02.696)
Yeah. Yeah, yeah.
Clay (28:16.678)
it shouldn’t occur anymore. And the reply I obtained was, nicely, we had a server go down the previous few days. And that will have brought on some glitches. So I used to be like, hmm, okay, I assume I can like, purchase that proper for now. Not less than I’m hoping in my thoughts that that’s the case. Proper? So I mentioned, okay, you understand,
Properly, let’s simply see what occurs. Dude, no joke. The subsequent day, it occurred once more. 7am, 171 folks.
Preston (28:50.883)
7 a.m. 171 folks. That was the second. I can inform by the way in which you’re speaking about it. That was the second that you just’re like, yeah, I’m achieved.
Clay (28:57.374)
Yeah. Properly, I obtained on help once more. And so they advised me the identical factor. Properly, it might have been a server difficulty. And I’m like, when did? Yeah, they don’t know. Yeah.
Preston (29:08.803)
So that they don’t know, they don’t know, they’re like greedy for straws at an excuse, making an attempt to appease you quickly, however they do not know what occurred. Yeah.
Clay (29:17.41)
Mm-hmm. So I requested them, I mentioned, hey, when did the server go down? And so they go, oh, they thumbed round just a little bit, they came upon the quote unquote reply. And I mentioned, then that’s not my difficulty as a result of this occurred exterior of these dates. It retains taking place each single day. I needed to go and manually shut down that specific automation to cease this. After which,
Preston (29:28.736)
Yeah.
Preston (29:32.355)
And it retains taking place. Yeah.
Clay (29:45.65)
That, yeah, that was what did it. I mentioned, screw this, I’m achieved, I’m going again to what labored earlier than. I forgot to say that my open charges went down drastically.
Preston (29:59.503)
And okay, so I stay on this area too, proper? And that is so fascinating as a result of this occurred to me after I switched from MailChimp to ActiveCampaign. ActiveCampaign was not my favourite. I attempted to modify over for just a few options that I actually wished to check out and the options themselves ended up not being that nice. After which the general device, I simply didn’t like that a lot. A part of it’s simply what you get used to, proper? I’d been in MailChimp for 10 years. I simply knew the way it labored. However I additionally identical to their UX higher.
Clay (30:09.073)
Mm-hmm.
Clay (30:20.437)
Mm-hmm.
Clay (30:28.747)
Yeah.
Preston (30:28.939)
After which MailChimp ended up choosing up a few of these options that I wished anyway. However within the meantime, yeah, I switched to ActiveCampaign. I had the identical expertise as you, which was my very same e-mail checklist, we warmed it up, very same content material, identical sender, every little thing, and my open and click on via charges simply plummeted. And I reached out to them three or 4 instances, and each time they form of gave me the run round such as you have been getting from this help, which was like, nicely, it might be this or might be that or simply give it a while.
After a yr on there with no enchancment, I went again to MailChimp and the primary e-mail I despatched out once more, it was again as much as…and now now we have even higher charges than we had earlier than. And once more, I get that like, yeah, we had been warming up that checklist on MailChimp for eight years or one thing, so I get it. However it’s important to…I imply, you may’t say you’re an all-in-one device when you can’t truly ship the tech that you just want so as to get these excessive deliverabilities. You simply can’t.
Clay (31:10.249)
Mm-hmm.
Clay (31:17.097)
Mm-hmm.
Clay (31:26.962)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I imply my open price went, I averaged with Keat earlier than, like 30-35% open price. After which I went, as quickly as I went to excessive stage, it went to love, not.
Preston (31:35.041)
Yeah.
Preston (31:41.107)
Dude, yeah, you may’t, I imply that’ll kill your small business. You may’t be doing that.
Clay (31:42.514)
And oh yeah, after which it, after which as quickly as I swap again to Keap, again up, again as much as 35, 40% now. You understand, and you understand, it’s, truly you understand what the true set off level was? Out of all of this, out of all of this, none of this was the precise set off. Even with help telling me, hey, it’s a server factor. I truly obtained on help one final time.
Preston (31:52.189)
Yeah. Yep.
Clay (32:13.026)
to see if I can get someone who is aware of what they’re speaking about. And so they did just a little extra digging. After which they, there’s a spot in excessive stage the place you may have a look at like logs, proper? Like exercise logs, like what’s taking place, like if there’s any form of export or if a consumer did a sure factor or no matter. This explicit individual advised me that there was a…
Preston (32:28.624)
Okay, yeah.
Clay (32:42.338)
consumer after which some type of random strings, string of characters, proper? Like that’s what the, it’s simply me and my spouse which are customers on this account. However this individual advised me there was one other consumer that was actually labeled consumer after which a complete string of characters and mentioned, yeah, it seems like that you’re manually sending these emails to all these 171 folks at a time for like 5 days in a row.
Preston (32:48.156)
Mm-hmm.
Preston (33:10.755)
That consumer was?
Clay (33:13.598)
Yeah, they usually tried to inform me it was me who was manually doing it. And I’m like, I don’t know who this consumer is. It isn’t me, it’s not my spouse. My spouse doesn’t even log in to excessive stage. I’m the one one which logs into excessive stage and there’s zero cause why I might manually be including these folks to an automation, which is why I’m right here complaining about it.
Preston (33:15.701)
No means.
Preston (33:33.819)
Yeah, I see why that’s just like the scary level, proper? Since you’ve obtained a buyer’s personal data, their contact data, it’s like, what are they really doing with this data? Is it protected, is it protected?
Clay (33:42.583)
Yeah.
Clay (33:48.39)
Yeah, and I got here to 2 conclusions. It’s gotta be certainly one of them. One, my account obtained hacked for no matter. Or two, their software program is simply fully not working accurately in any respect. Yeah, and I assumed, nope, I can not cope with this. I’ve obtained means too many, I obtained hundreds of contacts in right here who I can not have random emails and textual content messages going out.
Preston (33:54.753)
Mm-hmm.
Preston (34:01.527)
It sounds prefer it’s simply so buggy. Yeah.
Preston (34:15.839)
Yeah, yeah. You lose belief so quick with somebody, proper? They’re in that nurturing part. They only signed up to your e-mail checklist or simply downloaded a lead magnet and also you’re in that nurturing part. You may’t be messing up like that.
Clay (34:20.447)
Yep.
Clay (34:29.754)
Yep, so yeah, so I switched instantly. Instantly. I, I halted.
Preston (34:35.725)
So how lengthy from like if you determined you have been signing up till you determined you have been out?
Clay (34:43.054)
It’s most likely like 45 days. Yeah, it’s most likely 45 days.
Preston (34:44.715)
Wow.
Preston (34:49.367)
Dude, that’s painful. I imply…
Clay (34:49.802)
Yep, it solely, which is, right here’s what’s humorous about this. I had to return, I needed to, sadly I needed to go recreate a brand new Hold account. However this simply goes to point out you that how difficult excessive stage is. I went again, I needed to go and create a brand new Hold account as a result of my outdated one was gone.
Which that was a mistake on my half. Like I ought to have simply stored it simply in case, you understand? However like Hold was costing me $600 a month, you understand? So I’m like, I’m not gonna simply maintain it round, you understand? Like…
Preston (35:23.263)
Yeah.
Preston (35:26.911)
Yeah, yep.
Preston (35:31.371)
You understand what, that’s truly one factor I liked about MailChimp is, so I went away from MailChimp, they’ve like a pause the place you mainly, they retailer all of your contacts however you may’t ship any emails. And so you may’t truly use the core performance, however they’ll retailer all the e-mail addresses, as a result of you understand, it doesn’t price them that a lot to retailer 100,000 e-mail addresses or one thing. And…
Clay (35:38.303)
A pause.
Clay (35:45.29)
Mmm.
Clay (35:51.49)
Yeah.
Clay (35:55.267)
Yeah.
Preston (35:57.183)
In order that was tremendous good as a result of then as quickly as I got here again from ActiveCampaign it was all there. I needed to migrate within the ones that had signed up whereas I used to be on ActiveCampaign, you understand, however all of the outdated ones have been nonetheless there. All of their knowledge was there. What they’d opened earlier than, what they favored, what workflows they’d gone down, and so forth., and so forth. Prefer it was all nonetheless there was very nice. To not brag, as a result of I’m sorry about your… Yeah, that’s too dangerous.
Clay (36:05.946)
Mm-hmm.
Clay (36:14.798)
Mm-hmm. Yeah, you understand, I did make, I made that mistake, however you understand, I used to be considering $600, I can’t identical to pay $600 a month simply to, which I form of, I want I did although, fairly actually, it could have been, yep.
Preston (36:25.061)
No, completely.
Preston (36:29.035)
Properly yeah, in hindsight, it’s like I might have paid an additional $1,200 or one thing, however it wouldn’t have been that massive a deal.
Clay (36:33.982)
Yeah. Yeah, so in any case, I needed to go recreate it, however what’s humorous is it solely took me two full days to recreate every little thing in KEEP.
Preston (36:43.479)
Properly, a part of that’s, you understand, maintain rather well at this level, proper? However yeah.
Clay (36:46.846)
It’s. A part of it’s. However an enormous a part of it’s, it’s means simpler to make use of. Means simpler. So, in any case, I obtained a principle on why folks love excessive stage a lot. Why I get so many constructive evaluations. The primary one is, I’m an anomaly. Perhaps I’m the one one who doesn’t like excessive stage. As a result of apparently proper now, I feel I’m the one one.
Preston (37:05.087)
Okay? Yeah, I wish to hear it.
Preston (37:10.795)
I imply, I’m…
Preston (37:14.531)
I’m positive you’re not the one one, however I truly recognize that you just say that as a result of we might be incorrect on this, proper? That is actually identical to one man’s expertise, but in addition you’re not only a random consumer. You’ve used instruments like this up to now, a wide range of instruments like this up to now. You’ve been doing this a very long time.
Clay (37:16.157)
In the event you go Google the web.
Clay (37:22.158)
Could possibly be.
Clay (37:31.167)
Yep.
Clay (37:35.254)
Properly, right here’s how I do know I’m not the one one. As a result of after I made that submit in my Fb group, there have been a ton of feedback of people that have been on excessive stage and mentioned, thank God you mentioned this. Now I’ve a cause to maneuver away from it. They wanted the validation, you understand? So.
Preston (37:47.064)
Hmm.
Preston (37:51.011)
They wanted the validation.
Preston (37:56.139)
Properly, and I stick to the concept if there’s that many help evaluations, like if they’ve 1200 evaluations they usually’re principally about their help, think about how many individuals truly use their help, which implies they’ve obtained plenty of help tickets coming via, which implies there’s plenty of errors taking place and yeah.
Clay (38:01.957)
Uh-huh.
Clay (38:13.858)
tons. I feel, nicely I don’t suppose it’s simply the errors. I feel it’s the training curve, man. I feel folks hop on to help as a result of they only need assistance simply to study the rattling factor.
Preston (38:20.186)
Ah, yeah, yeah. Mm-hmm.
Preston (38:27.531)
Properly, you understand what, after I signed up, proper, they tried to, throughout my onboarding sequence, they tried to promote me on like a, you understand, an upsell on a we’ll migrate all of your stuff for you and we’ll present you how you can use it and be sure you’re all arrange and able to go. And my perception is software program, for essentially the most half, like we’re out of these days. That’s like early 2000s time when like they name a company assembly and everybody has to take a seat via a boring 4 hour coaching on how you can use the brand new software program.
Clay (38:40.235)
Yep.
Clay (38:46.059)
Yep.
Clay (38:55.475)
Mm-hmm.
Preston (38:55.644)
We, that is 2023 software program, you need to be capable to use it intuitively. In the event you can’t use it intuitively, it’s constructed incorrect.
Clay (39:00.449)
Yep.
That’s due to early 2000s, that was across the tech bubble. It’s like know-how was simply now a factor. Or like on-line net know-how.
Preston (39:06.099)
Yeah, yeah, precisely. Yeah, no, it’s… No, we’re means too far for needing to have a complete coaching round a bit of software program.
Clay (39:16.462)
Mm-hmm. In actual fact, like even when you have a look at maintain it was once referred to as infusion mushy it This firm is like 20 years outdated That’s after they began was early 2000s. And I keep in mind when you signed up for infusion mushy again then you definately needed to pay an onboarding payment for setup and all that stuff as a result of And I keep in mind this too as a result of folks bitched about it however like once more, that was like early 2000s when
Preston (39:21.182)
Mm-hmm.
Preston (39:24.557)
Yeah.
Preston (39:34.811)
Yeah.
Clay (39:46.03)
net, even like software program within the cloud, proper, aka the web, was a brand new factor, proper? Software program earlier than that, and even at the moment, was principally native. You needed to set up it regionally in your machine. After which on high of that, this automation all-in-one software program was a brand new factor. So the market sophistication was immature.
Preston (40:00.427)
Yeah, in your machine. Yep.
Clay (40:14.262)
However now, 20 years later, it’s very mature. Folks know what it’s, folks know how you can use it. There’s tons of them on the market. And now, when you join Hold, there’s, I feel you’ve gotten that possibility when you identical to, if you would like it, however you may go and join a Hold account and you may go proper into utilizing it.
Preston (40:30.827)
Yeah, I imply don’t get me incorrect, I’m all for like assist paperwork and you understand when you’ve got a query. However you understand, I did this after I labored company jobs. It was like we might get a brand new, some genius would resolve it was a good suggestion for us to modify our software program to one thing else after which 25 of us would all have to take a seat in a room whereas they defined how you can use it earlier than they’d ever even allow us to go browsing. And I’m identical to, to begin with, if it’s that difficult, you might want to work in your, how the app works and your UX and your usability of it.
Clay (40:35.147)
Mm-hmm.
Preston (41:00.787)
Second of all, I’m not gonna keep in mind every little thing you cowl on this 4 hour coaching, proper? Your software program must be usable with out me having to take intensive notes and I don’t know. So yeah, I’m with you. There’s actually a spot for a few of that, however I feel an increasing number of software program must be intuitive. And if it’s not, it’s out.
Clay (41:05.059)
haha
Yeah.
Clay (41:11.649)
Yep.
Clay (41:19.166)
Yeah. Yeah, so there’s truly 5 complete causes of my principle. We’ve already, yeah. I’m making notes. So we’ve lined two of them. That’s one, we’re an anomaly. Perhaps we’re incorrect. Quantity two is the help, proper? The help dialogue. Quantity three, I feel we, yeah, we form of talked about is the training curve is so excessive,
Preston (41:25.214)
The longer we speak, you retain racking up extra.
Preston (41:45.059)
Yeah.
Clay (41:49.282)
folks get on the help, I assume it’s lumped into that help possibility. Alright, so the fourth and the fifth one are the primary ones I feel. And that is additionally what sort of pissed me off about Excessive Stage is when you have a look at that software program in comparison with all the opposite opponents out there, they’re about half the worth. Half if not much less. So after I say half, for context, I used to be on the company stage.
Preston (41:51.747)
Yeah.
Preston (42:12.323)
I’ll get ya.
Clay (42:19.954)
of excessive stage, which was $300 a month. That’s dearer than only a fundamental account. The fundamental account is definitely $100 a month. I used to be paying $600 for a similar, quote unquote, identical factor with Hold. I used to be paying $600 a month. As a result of the way in which excessive stage pricing works is it doesn’t matter what number of contacts you’ve gotten, it’s only a flat payment.
Preston (42:30.681)
Mm-hmm.
Clay (42:47.126)
Whereas each different software program, the extra contacts you’ve gotten, it’s on a scaling pricing mannequin, proper? Yeah, it’s tremendous interesting. And I feel that’s why lots of people transfer over, as a result of it’s like tremendous low-cost.
Preston (42:52.311)
That’s, I imply that may be very interesting, proper? Yeah, yeah.
Preston (43:00.995)
Mm-hmm. And so they can develop with out the concern of paying extra as they develop.
Clay (43:05.646)
Right. Now, right here’s the place I obtained actually pissed off. Is that they’re not upfront about this. Not less than I didn’t see it. Is that I began seeing on my bank card assertion, a bunch of random $10 costs.
Preston (43:23.092)
Oh wow.
Clay (43:24.838)
So, after which I found out they cost a specific amount per e-mail that’s being despatched.
Preston (43:37.894)
Received it, so yeah, corporations that ship emails, they’ll go certainly one of two fashions. It’s both pay primarily based on the quantity that you just ship, or pay primarily based on the variety of contacts that you’ve.
Clay (43:38.219)
It’s a-
Clay (43:47.882)
Yep. Mm-hmm. However the way in which Excessive Stage does is that they cost you in $10 increments. So that they cost you just a few cents per e-mail that’s being composed and despatched out. Properly, I obtained like 20,000 emails. And in order that provides up. So I used to be getting charged like, and I used to be sending out two, three emails every week instances 20,000 folks. That provides up loads. And in order that $300.
Preston (44:00.659)
Received it. Yeah, yeah.
Preston (44:12.435)
Yeah that provides up.
Clay (44:17.958)
ended up being actually like $475 a month. No, after which on high of this, as a result of I had an e-mail deliverability difficulty, like I went from 35 to 9% open price, I made a decision to spend money on Mailgun, which is meant to assist with this. Now, lead, not like, excessive stage.
Preston (44:25.027)
So at that time, you’re probably not saving that a lot cash.
Preston (44:41.088)
Mm-hmm.
Clay (44:47.314)
used to not have their very own model of mailgun, you used to need to get mailgun. Prefer it was.
Preston (44:53.507)
So Mailgun is simply to let everybody know, proper? Isn’t it an e-mail optimizer? Prefer it makes positive your spam score is tremendous low, your deliverability is as excessive as it may be.
Clay (45:01.126)
Yeah, yeah, it goes via like a verification course of, like they’ll confirm that the e-mail is definitely actual and stuff like that. Like, so again within the day, when excessive stage first got here out, you needed to buy Mailgun. It was required so as so that you can use e-mail. Properly, since then, excessive stage got here up with their very own proprietary one referred to as Lead Connector. And I attempted Lead Connector at first, and I used to be like, dude, that is this blows, I’m getting 9%.
Preston (45:04.759)
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
Clay (45:28.31)
Properly they nonetheless have the choice of mailgun so I mentioned okay let me go buy mailgun, see if that’s higher. It did convey it up barely higher, it went from like 9 to love 14-15% which continues to be crap. Yeah. However like mailgun was costing me $150 a month so $475.
Preston (45:39.279)
It’s nonetheless like half of what you have been getting earlier than. Yeah.
Preston (45:46.995)
So now you’re at like 625. You’re mainly at what you have been paying for maintain.
Clay (45:49.874)
Yeah, yeah, it was extra. It was barely greater than what I used to be paying for KEEP after which that, proper, like I used to be achieved. I used to be like, I’m paying the identical sum of money. You understand, a minimum of the distinction is, is that with KEEP, I don’t have any of the headache. You understand? So in any case, that’s the fourth cause. I feel there are constructive evaluations as a result of it’s quote unquote cheap. Not in actuality, for my part.
Preston (45:53.912)
Yeah.
Preston (46:06.56)
Yeah.
Clay (46:19.75)
The final one is, and I feel it is a actual cause, is it’s an MLM. We already talked about this. It’s, it’s, they do have the affiliate half which isn’t MLM, however they’ve the MLM the place when you join a bunch of sub-accounts below you, like that’s an MLM. As a result of what occurs if you because the grasp account quits? There’s certainly one of two choices. One,
Preston (46:24.822)
Yep.
Clay (46:47.806)
All these subaccounts, they need to be transferred to a different individual, one other grasp account. Or, or they join a model new account that’s below their very own title. After which they’ve to start out from scratch.
Preston (47:04.703)
That’s nuts, that’s bonkers to me. I assume I might see like, you understand, like when you’re white labeling it or one thing, you understand, I might type of see why that might work. However, oh, that’s loopy to me. To think about that like, no. Properly, and to think about that my account is topic to your small business, staying in enterprise, and persevering with to make use of that software program, that’s simply nuts.
Clay (47:06.875)
or the account goes away.
Clay (47:22.003)
It’s not moral to me. It’s not moral.
Clay (47:29.298)
Sure. Mm-hmm. I imply, there’s simply an excessive amount of at stake. There’s an excessive amount of at stake as a result of what if I used to be a sub-account below someone else? And I don’t know this, proper? Perhaps I don’t know. Most individuals truly don’t know. They don’t know that if their grasp account decides to not use excessive stage.
Preston (47:40.627)
Yeah, precisely.
Clay (47:54.07)
then their account both must be going to a different individual or they’ve to start out a brand new account or their account goes away. There’s an excessive amount of at stake. I’ve so many workflow automations and I spent so many hours and a lot cash and I’ve 20,000 contacts that I personal. What occurs if my grasp account quits and doesn’t inform me?
Preston (48:13.619)
Yeah, no means. No means. Yeah, if that’s actually true, if that’s actually how that works and there’s like no means of getting back from that, I simply can’t even think about what that’s going to, that’s completely going to come back again to chew them.
Clay (48:23.883)
Proper?
I don’t, I simply don’t need that a lot of my enterprise to be depending on another person like that.
Preston (48:33.419)
Yeah. For me, you understand, that is actually fascinating to wrap this up. I feel, I feel that is, we advise folks in opposition to this shiny object syndrome on a regular basis and I’ve been responsible of it. You understand, I shared my energetic marketing campaign story. You’ve been responsible of it. We’ve all been responsible of it. It’s very, very simple to do, however that is possibly like one of many clearest tales I’ve ever seen of shiny object syndrome the place it’s like, this simply wasn’t value it. It simply, if one thing is working,
To me, to modify after I’ve achieved this incorrect a pair instances, so as to swap, it must be like means, a minimum of twice nearly as good and apparent that it’s gonna be, it could actually’t simply be marginally higher as a result of generally it’s like, nicely, you understand, if it’s 10% higher, I can most likely determine that out by cobbling collectively a pair further items of code or apps or integrations or one thing. It must be considerably higher.
Clay (49:08.423)
Mm-hmm.
Preston (49:24.707)
for me to vary every little thing, threat all of it, as a result of plenty of instances you simply find yourself coming again to what you’ve gotten arrange that’s working. When one thing’s working, that’s, I feel we possibly undervalue that. When one thing, notably in the case of automation and stuff, if it’s working, simply go away it alone.
Clay (49:25.155)
Mm-hmm.
Clay (49:40.982)
Yep, that’s the lesson of this episode. I imply, even when you’re on excessive stage at present and also you’re listening and it’s working, simply maintain it. Yeah, simply maintain it.
Preston (49:49.951)
And don’t change as a result of we mentioned to if it’s working. Yeah. Yeah, we’ll additionally embrace hyperlinks to Clay’s excessive stage sub account. You may join below him.
Clay (50:02.034)
Hey, I do have an affiliate hyperlink if you wish to join. I’m a Hold Licensed Companion now.
Preston (50:07.251)
Oh, we is not going to be together with hyperlinks to Excessive Stage after this episode. Not that anybody would click on on them. We are going to embrace, you understand, I’ll embrace our checklist of high 10 CRMs for freelancers and businesses, which is definitely certainly one of our hottest weblog posts, and it does embrace on their maintain. I used to be going to incorporate Excessive Stage, however after this dialog, I don’t suppose I’ll. We’ll see how time performs on the market.
You understand what? They might come again too, proper? They might in 5 years from now, might be like they’re the market chief and indeniable. However for now, yeah, for now, thanks for sharing your story, Clay, and serving to the remainder of us know to not possibly suppose twice earlier than we go leap on the shiny bandwagon of go excessive stage.
Clay (50:33.538)
They might come again, yeah.
Clay (50:53.403)
I’m hoping, that is what I’m hoping to achieve with this episode is the folks which are at present on it they usually’re pissed off with it however they’re making an attempt to hold on to it however they hear everyone else saying it’s important to use this. Right here’s validation. You should not have to make use of it when you’re pissed off.
Preston (51:11.071)
You don’t, you understand what, that goes for any software program you’re utilizing. It ought to make your life simpler. You should not have to stay with something simply because it’s quote unquote the market chief or since you noticed another person use it. Like this occurred a short time in the past. You know the way Pat Flynn, Sensible Passive Earnings, for years, he made an enormous bulk of his earnings from selling Bluehost as an affiliate.
Clay (51:15.096)
Anybody, yeah.
Clay (51:33.768)
Mm-hmm.
Preston (51:35.999)
And it seems Bluehost is simply okay in the case of internet hosting. If you would like something greater than fundamental internet hosting, Bluehost will not be actually the best choice. And but, yeah, and but folks talked about it prefer it was one of the best factor as a result of they obtained 200 bucks each time somebody signed up, proper? Yeah, oh yeah, and Bluehost is aware of it. And so they lean into that technique. And when it comes to advertising, good on them. When it comes to truly buyer satisfaction and…
Clay (51:44.298)
I feel it’s lower than okay.
Clay (51:51.866)
Oh, they obtained one of the best fee, one of the best, yeah.
Preston (52:04.367)
precise product, they undoubtedly have room to enhance. All that to say, you don’t need to go along with what everybody’s speaking about as a result of usually what everybody’s speaking about, there are different motives in addition to simply your finest pursuits in thoughts. Hold that in thoughts. It’s an excellent factor to consider if you’re contemplating switching. Clay Mosley from GetDripify.com. Been tremendous enlightening for me right now, hopefully useful for the listeners as nicely. Thanks a lot, man.
Clay (52:08.246)
Mm-hmm.
Clay (52:19.746)
Mm-hmm.
Clay (52:33.406)
Yeah, for positive. Joyful to rant, as all the time. Ha ha.
Preston (52:36.972)
This has been our longest Q&A episode to this point, however I wished a rant. That is completely a full episode. You’re getting plenty of bang to your buck on this episode, undoubtedly. I’ve been Preston with milo.co and we’ll speak to you guys subsequent time. See you.
Clay (52:41.87)
This is perhaps a full episode.
Clay (52:52.994)
See ya.
